Is it perfect or can it be better?

<span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><font color="#333333" face="Tahoma, Geneva, sans-serif, Arial, Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 18px;">Although I've never heard of any "camp[s] of thinking which state that things are already perfect (and will always be, no need to change or improve)", I do draw&nbsp;parallels in the language learning literature pertaining to interlanguage and the idealized "native speaker".</span></font></span><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><font color="#333333" face="Tahoma, Geneva, sans-serif, Arial, Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 18px;"><br></span></font></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><font color="#333333" face="Tahoma, Geneva, sans-serif, Arial, Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 18px;">One way to look at this is in terms of language learning through the notion of interlanguage; that is, an emerging linguistic system that is valued in terms of how it creates a change in someone else. &nbsp;Instead of trying to achieve "perfect" native-like language, a language learner's interlanguage is assessed in terms of how meaning is being negotiated within a particular context. &nbsp;So awarding a grade of 100% is not a value judgment based on a "native speaker", but rather the degree in which one's interlanguage functions within a social semiotic (i.e., the relationships between ideational, interpersonal, and textual metafunctions or networks) (Refer to Halliday and system functional grammar). &nbsp;</span></font></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><font color="#333333" face="Tahoma, Geneva, sans-serif, Arial, Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 18px;"><br></span></font></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><font color="#333333" face="Tahoma, Geneva, sans-serif, Arial, Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 18px;">I think we (educators and students alike) continue through life in "beta" - and our language development is no exception. &nbsp;Grades (as an&nbsp;accreditation tactic) and learning are two separate things. &nbsp;So a grade of 100% simply means that a student's learning is either being compared to other students' behavior or is being compared to some criteria. &nbsp;But a grade of 100% does not mean the learner has no room for future growth. &nbsp;Even if one chooses not to agree with the concept of interlanguage, grading a learner at 100% in terms of an being a "native speaker" still assumes that there is further growth potential.</span></font></span></div>

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Teachers must be pragmatic and realize that learning is a subversive activity.  When students invest in their own education, they hide in the bushes and try to ambush us by asking questions.  This we take as a universal good. There's not much place for perfection here.

Teachers must be pragmatic and realize that learning is a subversive activity. &nbsp;When students invest in their own education, they hide in the bushes and try to ambush us by asking questions. &nbsp;This we take as a universal good. There's not much place for perfection here.<div><br></div><div>Jesus was a subversive in his day and, of course, a teacher. &nbsp;But most of his followers have lost his subversive zeal and schools have discarded his lesson plans as being obsolete and unteachable. Putting Jesus on our dashboard or in front of a class is a mistake because he doesn't belong in either place, today. &nbsp;Pragmatist rule.</div><div><br></div><div>If you want to&nbsp;seize perfection you should do nothing, meditate, turn inward toward your heart and conscious&nbsp;as the Buddhist and others do.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div>

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Marcus, here is an interesting article about app for learning Chinese tonal pronunciation.

Marcus, here is an interesting article about app for learning Chinese tonal pronunciation.<div><br></div><div><a href="http://fairlanguages.com/mindsnacks-mandarin-chinese-app-teaches-over-1400-words-and-phrases/">http://fairlanguages.com/mindsnacks-mandarin-chinese-app-teaches-over-1400-words-and-phrases/</a> </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>And here</div><div><a href="http://mindsnacks.tumblr.com/post/14477351605/the-making-of-galactic-for-our-mandarin-chinese">http://mindsnacks.tumblr.com/post/14477351605/the-making-of-galactic-for-our-mandarin-chinese</a></div>

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I wonder sometimes if I am living in La-la land.  Part of me strives for perfection ( a small part) and the authorities in our lives certainly say it is the goal.  I think that there are many practical aspects of better defining what perfection is.  In manufacturing there are tolerances and realistic expectation of an optimum process.  When every indicator we grade students by are only 100% and anything less is falling short, do we really think they can ever consistently achieve it?  I have watched countless times when an authority (e.g. teacher) is very uncomfortable or even aggressive if someone points out a mistake.  It makes me think that they have built their entire paradigm on the assumption that perfectio is achievable and they must support that view by never being wrong. 

I wonder sometimes if I am living in La-la land. &nbsp;Part of me strives for perfection ( a small part) and the authorities in our lives certainly say it is the goal. &nbsp;I think that there are many practical aspects of better defining what perfection is. &nbsp;In manufacturing there are tolerances and realistic expectation of an optimum process. &nbsp;When every indicator we grade students by are only 100% and anything less is falling short, do we really think they can ever consistently achieve it? &nbsp;I have watched countless times when an authority (e.g. teacher) is very uncomfortable or even aggressive if someone points out a mistake. &nbsp;It makes me think that they have built their entire paradigm on the assumption that perfectio is achievable and they must support that view by never being wrong.&nbsp;<div><br></div>

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While this is a philosophical discussion I would also submit that in my Holy Book, we are admonished to be perfect as Jesus is perfect.  This really pissed off a lot of the religious elites who believed that only God is perfect.  I think that the perfection that Jesus was referring to was that He was doing the things that God wanted Him to do.  We are to follow a higher calling than our selfish goals in life. 

While this is a philosophical discussion I would also submit that in my Holy Book, we are admonished to be perfect as Jesus is perfect. &nbsp;This really pissed off a lot of the religious elites who believed that only God is perfect. &nbsp;I think that the perfection that Jesus was referring to was that He was doing the things that God wanted Him to do. &nbsp;We are to follow a higher calling than our selfish goals in life.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>This might tie into the discussion in that there is no perfection in this life. &nbsp;There is only the diligent pursuit of worthy hearts trying to follow a better path. &nbsp;Mind you, if I have a heart operation I would want a surgeon as close to perfect as my money could buy ;-)</div><div><br></div>

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Mr. Greenwood: "It's time for 'subversive' to begin." Again!

Mr. Greenwood: "It's time for 'subversive' to begin." Again!

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George, I am trying to avoid one language learning.  We become too narrow minded if we focus only on one language.  If I had been introduced to Spanish, French, Italian, and German collectively at a beginner level I might have chosen one language to become stronger in.  It's actually easier for me to study Korean by using Chinese and Japanese.  I am trying to find a way to learn a family of languages like a musician would play one instrument in a group, but they would be exposed to the other instruments.  When you read about European history, you don't just learn about one country. Same idea.  Before you decide on one language, you should really spend time getting a taste of several.

As for pronunciation, people should study with a native speaker.  If that is what you want.  The last thing I want to do is train myself to be dependent on an iphone app to communicate.  I don't own an iphone, I don't want an iphone, and I don't believe it is healthy to learn from them.  It's like eating microwave food.  It's fast and available, but is it really good for you?  Which area of China are these tones from?  Chinese pronounce words differently depending on where they are from.  Does the app fully address this issue?  I highly doubt it.

Google "Glossika" and check out his youtube videos.  His lectures/lessons would rip any app into shreds.  Here's one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK7TkeK-hOk

George, I am trying to avoid one language learning.&nbsp; We become too narrow minded if we focus only on one language.&nbsp; If I had been introduced to Spanish, French, Italian, and German collectively at a beginner level I might have chosen one language to become stronger in.&nbsp; It's actually easier for me to study Korean by using Chinese and Japanese.&nbsp; I am trying to find a way to learn a family of languages like a musician would play one instrument in a group, but they would be exposed to the other instruments.&nbsp; When you read about European history, you don't just learn about one country. Same idea.&nbsp; Before you decide on one language, you should really spend time getting a taste of several.<br><br>As for pronunciation, people should study with a native speaker.&nbsp; If that is what you want.&nbsp; The last thing I want to do is train myself to be dependent on an iphone app to communicate.&nbsp; I don't own an iphone, I don't want an iphone, and I don't believe it is healthy to learn from them.&nbsp; It's like eating microwave food.&nbsp; It's fast and available, but is it really good for you?&nbsp; Which area of China are these tones from?&nbsp; Chinese pronounce words differently depending on where they are from.&nbsp; Does the app fully address this issue?&nbsp; I highly doubt it.<br><br>Google <span class="st">"Glossika" and check out his youtube videos.&nbsp; His lectures/lessons would rip any app into shreds.&nbsp; Here's one </span><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK7TkeK-hOk">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK7TkeK-hOk</a><span class="st"></span>

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A mouse will learn where the cheese is in a maze because of its natural desires.  However, the maze it must navigate through is not natural.  We are conditioning that mouse to function outside of reality.

When you use technology like an iphone and run an app, you are the mouse now running in a maze set up by the programmer.  When you read a book you are only taking in one account of a story or piece of history/reality.  Social intervention allows us to see different paths and get a more overall understanding of a reality.

A mouse will learn where the cheese is in a maze because of its natural desires.&nbsp; However, the maze it must navigate through is not natural.&nbsp; We are conditioning that mouse to function outside of reality. <br><br>When you use technology like an iphone and run an app, you are the mouse now running in a maze set up by the programmer.&nbsp; When you read a book you are only taking in one account of a story or piece of history/reality.&nbsp; Social intervention allows us to see different paths and get a more overall understanding of a reality.<br>

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I think that the only sure thing is, that at sometime, things change.  Hence, my own belief system requires that I try to improve on what ever it is as it can always be better.  However, I am not obsessive compulsive, therefore I have varying degrees of how, in what manner, and how much time I am willing to invest in trying to make things better.  I read your comments to  two of my col.  They found it interesting but felt it was thought provoking and did not give a comment about their views saying that they had to think about it some more.

I think that the only sure thing is, that at sometime, things change.&nbsp; Hence, my own belief system requires that I try to improve on what ever it is as it can always be better.&nbsp; However, I am not obsessive compulsive, therefore I have varying degrees of how, in what manner, and how much time I am willing to invest in trying to make things better.&nbsp; I read your comments to&nbsp; two of my col.&nbsp; They found it interesting but felt it was thought provoking and did not give a comment about their views saying that they had to think about it some more.<br>

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